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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:31 pm 
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I was planning on running Amethyst on 4e for the first time im new to the setting and had a question regarding some of the options in Foundations and Evolution. What classes should I allow for character creation since there have been quite a few new ones released since Amethyst was released. How come wizard is the only spellcasting class allowed ?What is this different since release of sorcerer, artificer, swordmage and bard since they could be simply channeling magic from the gates without needing to use Pleoroma however you spell it or accomplish a different effects using the words. Also shadow power source, druid, shaman and all the sub builds for wizard now. There are like 5 different wizards, each class has at least 3 subtypes. Also a few spellcasters from primal, shadow and psionic power source (Druids, shamans, vampire, psion, ardent, monk) since divine was esentially a banned source. Also regarding the wizard, their "totem master" i take it is supposed to replace their Implement mastery all together rather than complement it? Anyways i think that is about all the questions i had while reading Foundations. Also im not sure, but the techan classes seem slightly more powerful than echan classes.

P.S. hope the new book comes out soon id love to see nihilomancer and the more chaotic stuff :D


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:52 pm 
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The quick response (before I have a chance to really explain everything in detail) would be to copy this post made some months back...




Something which has been brought up a lot recently deals with canon and non-canon classes and races from later WOTC publications. We state with the first PHB which classes are canon and which are not--the guide being that divine classes are all out and the only arcane class is Wizard. This actually extends to further publications as well. Amethyst has always been a low-to-medium magic setting. There is powerful magic but it's rare. So there should only be one arcane character per group.

As for races, the same rule applies--no races other than our own...so let's go back to classes.

Let's look first at Player's Handbook 2:

Avenger: A divine class so no.

Barbarian: This is the tricky one. While there is nothing to really prevent someone from choosing barbarian, it's something you would never see in my personal Amethyst game...at least if my players were good guys. Many of the nations in Amethyst are too civilized to really have them. Still, I won't say they are non-canon. If anything, I would avoid making these human. Chaparrans, pagus, sure.

Bards: If these guys were charismatic leaders with the power to sway the masses with their words (like the way we altered them for Amethyst 3.5 or how Goodman presented them in their book last year), I wouldn't mind...but PHB2 makes them spellcasters...so they're out.

Druid: Druids were present in the 3.5 Amethyst and we have lifepaths which emulate some of their powers. This is another tough one. I would definitely see them with the condition that they are rarer than wizards and nearly always non-human (once again, chaparrans being the best suggestion).

Invoker: This is another divine class so they are out.

Shaman: Another primal class and like Barbarians, would be well suited to the wilder races (chaparrans, pagus). This is another rarity but not against canon.

Sorcerer: Nope.

Warden: This one's good but still another common sight with wilder races.

So in conclusion, we can see how this is going. Arcane and Divine classes are always out. Primal classes are optional on the condition the fluff matches. I recommend connecting them to wilder race in Amethyst like Pagus, Half Pagus, and Chaparrans and some humans. You would never see a primal class with Damaskans, Laudenians, or humans from a kingdom or free house.

Now to Players Handbook 3:

Here is a shock...I could see allowing Minotaur. It is a mythological creature based on real legends...so I could see allowing it in canon.

Now PHB3 introduces Psionic classes. It should be noted that psionics don't technically break canon, but we don't explain why. For now, let me say that they are not a common sight and would be the rarest class in the game.

Ardent: As stated, we would allow Ardent...though we cannot say why yet.

Battlemind: Same as above...

Monk: Despite being called psionics, Monks are good.

Psion: Kinda pushing it, this one. Just saying. I would avoid it and keep with the other three.

Runepriest: Divine...waaait. Not necessarily. If you homebrew a rule swapping divine runs for Pleroma...I could see allowing it. This would be really rare and I would only allow it if a player was really begging.

Seeker: Returning to the Primal conversation with PHB2, this can be included, though it would be rare and more accustomed to wilder races.

So PHB3 spices things up a bit. For one, we make an exception for Runepriest and give a provisional tolerance to the psionic classes on the condition they be allowed sparingly.

After all is said in done, of the 14 classes in between PHB2 and 3, ten are good to go, though some are more well suited than others. Personally, I would allow any primal classes if the player wanted to play chaparran. But beyond that, I would recommend my player group stick with the staples.

In a strange sense of irony, it should be noted that (with the exception of the necromancer), the classes in both Forgotten Heroes: Scythe and Shroud and Forgotten Heroes: Fang, Fist, and Song are all allowed. And it's not just because they are also published by Goodman.


Now, that being said, we did start mucking around to make exceptions in our Pathfinder version to allow druids and clerics. We added in lifepaths/traits to permit it.


ACTUAL EXCERPT

CLERIC
(See the PATHFINDER CORE RULEBOOK on the cleric).
Requirement: The cleric is only available if you select the Gneolistic trait.
Spellcasting: All cleric spells in Amethyst require a somatic component. Cleric spells in Amethyst also do not require a verbal component.

DRUID
(See the PATHFINDER CORE RULEBOOK on the druid).
Requirement: The druid is only available if you select the Darawren trait.
Spellcasting: All druid spells in Amethyst require a material component. If one is not listed, then it's simple natural components like grass, bark, or soil (materials a druid always has on hand). Druid spells in Amethyst also do not require a somatic component, but they always require a vocal component.
Totem: The druid is actually a spellcaster similar to the wizard. The spells may be classed as divine but they follow the same rules of arcane spells. Like an arcane wizard, you must select an arcane bond, which acts as your totem. You cannot bond to a creature, only to an object. This object is required in hand for all spells. For all intensive purposes, the arcane bond and totem is the same thing and the rules regarding the bond also apply to the totem. In Amethyst, the totem is limited to a book, orb, staff, weapon, or shield. It cannot be an amulet, ring, or wand (See Wizard).

_________________
“I despise stallions. I ride them as I ride an ugly noble women--smiles for appearances and politics only. Stallions. All personality with no depth. They prance like ponies and trot with arrogance. I always say, respect your mules most of all. A stallion may lead with the king and gather the eyes, but a mule will follow behind…and carry your kingdom.”
Tsarevick Kazaan
Amethyst D20
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Thanks for the input ill be trying to run my first game soon to test out the setting. What about shadow classes? Assassin and vampire. Also how there are like 5 different wizard "builds" or essentials wizards: bladesinger, sha'ir, witch, mage and if the wizard totem mastery actually replaces their implement mastery class feature. I imagine it would since running around with 2 uses of orb of imposition seems a bit overpowered.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Immortal wrote:
Thanks for the input ill be trying to run my first game soon to test out the setting. What about shadow classes? Assassin and vampire. Also how there are like 5 different wizard "builds" or essentials wizards: bladesinger, sha'ir, witch, mage and if the wizard totem mastery actually replaces their implement mastery class feature. I imagine it would since running around with 2 uses of orb of imposition seems a bit overpowered.


Well, things may get a bit muddled. I leave that up to GMs to decide how "canon" they want their Amethyst game to be. However, I run an "extremist" game. I don't allow anything outside of the main books. So no races other than my own and no funky classes unless there is some precedent in the setting for it. And sometimes you can re-label ideas in order to make it work, so if an idea can be relabeled as "naturally enchanted", like a shadow class, then it can go on through. Vampires are odd because technically they don't exist in Amethyst. However, our version has yet to be officially introduced, which is annoying I know. As for Wizard, once again, I would trust the judgement of the GM.

_________________
“I despise stallions. I ride them as I ride an ugly noble women--smiles for appearances and politics only. Stallions. All personality with no depth. They prance like ponies and trot with arrogance. I always say, respect your mules most of all. A stallion may lead with the king and gather the eyes, but a mule will follow behind…and carry your kingdom.”
Tsarevick Kazaan
Amethyst D20
Image
http://www.diasexmachina.com


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