Dias Ex Machina Games

I believe it had been mentioned that UM4/NS would be keeping closer to the more complex original design precepts of older 4e AEDU, as opposed to the newer, Essentials-style builds, which got me to thinking:

What about themes? I know the newer themes that are currently being introduced by WotC are a departure from the original design, and from what I've seen of the Ladder system, it looks to be somewhat similar to the older theme implementation (although it looks to be more thoroughly used and much better integrated) but were/are there any plans to use or produce results in the base system similar to Themes produced for Dark Sun? I've personally found them to be pretty interesting, and my players have enjoyed having something extra to do aside from their at-will abilities at low levels, when there would otherwise be few choices open to them. ("Do I use my single Encounter, blow a Daily, or spam At-wills?")

With Lifepaths, Ladders and Classes, will the end result be something a bit closer to the original PHB classes (2 at-wills, 1 encounter, 1 daily at 1st level) or more along the lines of the Dark Sun characters. (2 at-wills, 1 encounter, 1 daily, 1 minor encounter--closer to an at-will in power, 1 super-minor at-will, similar to a very weak utility)

I was personally hoping for something closer to Dark Sun, because the first level granted abilities are generally confined to (a) Skill training, which is primarily out of combat use, and (b) Encounter-use abilities that are weaker than Class-granted Encounter Powers, the change in granted power is very minimal, and shouldn't require any real re-tooling of numbers elsewhere in the system, while it still provides lower level players with additional choices and decisions to make in combat, which helps prevent "at-will spam" some people complain about at lower levels.

Also, I know that with the three-step system there's a lot of opportunity for variety, but will multi-classing (multi-laddering?) be supported in some fashion? I am not really a fan of either of the implementations WotC used (feat based is unnecessarily costly for the benefit gained, and hybrids generally get the shaft on skills out of combat, as well as a lot of the hybrid features generally being poorly designed) but was just curious if there were any plans to implement something like either one.

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"Appreciation is a wonderful thing: It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well."
-Voltaire... who, if I'm reading most of the rest of his stuff properly, didn't actually appreciate much.

Currently, I see no way to multi-ladder without horribly unbalancing the game. That being said, there may be room for limited variety. I have never read Dark Sun so I have little experience with their theme system. Lifepaths are campaign specific, so you won't see them in UM4, but you will in Amethyst and NeuroSpasta. Looking over UM4 characters, they will be more complicated at level 1 than standard D&D fare, including having more abilities.

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“I despise stallions. I ride them as I ride an ugly noble women--smiles for appearances and politics only. Stallions. All personality with no depth. They prance like ponies and trot with arrogance. I always say, respect your mules most of all. A stallion may lead with the king and gather the eyes, but a mule will follow behind…and carry your kingdom.”
Tsarevick Kazaan
Amethyst D20

http://www.diasexmachina.com

If you really want the extra bump, there's no reason you couldn't allow characters to have a ladder and a theme (you'd have to create some suited to a modern setting though). I'm trying out a campaign right now doing just that. However, I don't see much need to have that as a standard rule. For one, I love the concept of ladders but they do increase complexity, especially for new players, and for some having to choose between class, ladder, and theme powers might seem a little overwhelming. Also, even though ladders don't have a bonus power like themes, they do grant additional abilities and they do so as the character levels up.

I have been wondering of late if it would be possible to use ladders to improve multiclassing. I already think the multiclass themes that I have seen homebrewed are far superior to the old form of multiclassing, since ladders can grant abilities as well as powers, one could take the idea even further. It would be a time-intensive task, however.

@Slipstream: That makes a lot of sense. I figure with the choice between classes and ladders you've already got a good bit of variety in the base. Knowing that there's additional things for them to do at low levels is going to be a big selling point for some folks. For more 'standard' games, I'd been house ruling in an additional at-will usable only as an Encounter power to throw in some variety without needing to worry much about balance or any real power creep, and that seemed pretty popular.

@bonenaga: Eh, I wasn't looking for a bump so much, (actually, I've been looking to avoid it as much as possible ) as just a way to give my players a bit more to do in the low level game. In general the 4e character doesn't have a full compliment (3E, 3D) of available choices until they're ready to hit paragon. The game is (mostly) built around that assumption, so it works, but it also results in a lot of the lower combat seeming a bit less dynamic to folks who've tasted those heady waters of high Heroic and beyond. I think the idea of using themes to replace the old feat-based multiclassing is a wonderful one for a number of reasons... outside of a few corner cases the return is never worth the expense, and just becomes another "choose absolutely right or suck" option for some of my players. Too many feats given up for too little gain--the first step feats, on the other hand, are pretty good, and I find myself using them almost constantly when I get to play.

Since I'm still not in the playtest group, I'm not wholly clear on how ladders and classes work in UM4/NS, so I can't comment to much on those other than "I like what I've heard."
COUGHSUPERSUBTLEHINTCOUGH

Ahem. Pardon me, summer colds are the wost.

_________________
"Appreciation is a wonderful thing: It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well."
-Voltaire... who, if I'm reading most of the rest of his stuff properly, didn't actually appreciate much.